Mountain Yellow-Legged Frog

This week we talk to Podcific's own Erin Lundy all about the mountain yellow-legged frog! Leaping into conservation efforts to aid in the recovery of this species, the Aquarium of the Pacific built a lab space to care for these critically endangered amphibians native to California’s mountain regions.

Episode Transcript

Learn more about the Aquarium's mountain yellow-legged frog conservation efforts on our website.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hi, I'm Erin Lundy. And I'm Madeline Walden, and this is Aquarium of the Pod Civic, a podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, Southern California's largest aquarium.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal care, conservation, and more.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Welcome back to Aquarium of the Pod Civic. I'm Madeline Walden, the Aquarium's digital content and community manager.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

And I'm Erin Lundy, Conservation Coordinator for Mammals and Birds and Animal Care Specialist, especially with Frog.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Specially, specialist. Which is the theme of our podcast today. Today we're going to talk about the mountain yellow leg frog, and I am so honored to have an incredible guest today. Her name is Erin Lundy, and she's also my podcast host, and she's sitting right next to me.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

So unfortunately, I will not be asking any questions. I hope you might be asking yourself the answers to my questions.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Some existential questions.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

What is a frog? A frog is an amphibian.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I'm saying you have to ask yourself that every time.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

What is a frog? A frog is an amphibian. I also told Madeline to stop me if I ever get on a frog tangent that goes too deep. If I go into the frog hole, she will pull me back out.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

No, I think you're great about communicating. You know, I'm I'm not a science person. I don't have a background in science. I just have a background in Aquarium of the Pacific. This is awkward. This is awkward. I didn't know. So whenever you you're just so great about communicating in a way that's digestible, but also shows your passion for, especially this project that you work so hard on. So I'm just really excited to hear it in depth and to learn along with our audience to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

To learn about our mountain yellow-legged frogs. Yellow-legged frogs. Rana Muscosa.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

But this is also our last episode of the season. This is our tenth episode of our podcast. It's not over, don't worry. We'll be back.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

It's been it's been a really great season, and we've had actually a lot of different guests on. And I think that we've learned about both the animal care side of things from a lot of different keepers. If I had to choose what my favorite fact I learned this season was, what would yours be?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

We've learned a lot. We've learned so much. Um, I don't know, I think just my favorite fact, and this isn't necessarily a fact, it's been watching you learn the thing. Well, because I'm learning too, but you're so visual with your you're like literally like eyes open, like need to take a breath, like need to exit the room for a moment. Like they do what? Sea stars start off as two diamonds. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Why is there a 600-pound octopus? I still don't know the answer. And uh, I have talked to a couple of our guests, and you know, people are in the aquarium who've given me feedback, and they're routinely surprised at how much we don't know. And I think it's a really salient point that like people know a lot about the projects that they're particularly involved in, but it is difficult to know in-depth information about every species that we have because we have so many.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

We have so many. I mean, we have 12,000 animals here, and we have specialists in every single field and every single, you know, kind of group of that. But something that is part of their day-to-day is mind-blowing for someone else to hear. Specifically me. Specifically you, man. Exactly. So I think that's what's been so cool about the podcast, is kind of just tricking our uh colleagues into talking about all the amazing stuff that they're doing. It's been a trick. It's been a trick. They didn't know they were being recorded.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

No, they I think that's like a violation. I don't think we can do that. We probably need to have all the episodes that we've had so far. No, I think my favorite fact, aside from the 600-pound octopus, that I don't know if it's my favorite or the just the most terrifying. Scariest fact. I love that sea turtles' fat is green from all the green things that they eat. And I really wonder what color my fat is based off of.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And that's what we're gonna find out today.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Today's episode is about dissecting errands and determining what she eats the most of. Um, that, and then also that the octopus have nine brains. That's a lot. Donut shaped. It's a lot of brains. There's been a lot. I've really liked getting sort of an inside look. Also, Josh just like totally roasting us on our own podcast. Yeah, that was great. It's one of my favorite things. If you guys haven't listened to the jelly episode, Josh is just like, he has the driest humor, but he is such a good human too. And he's so smart about all the jellies that even listening to the episode back was amazing for me. And I felt like I was learning again because it's so complicated that I couldn't absorb it all.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

That's part of it too, is going back and editing everything. I learned so much all over again, or it's something I missed. I'm like, I wish I would have asked about that more. Like, that's fascinating. So we're definitely gonna have um new people on next season. But let us know what your favorite episodes are, let us know who your favorite um speakers were, and we'd love to invite them back on to talk about no one. One and done. That's it. That's all you get. No, but I feel like you know, we're so lucky too that our specialists that we've had on are specialists in other things, even. So I am looking forward to the future of this podcast alongside you.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And science education from people who are doing the work is like the exact niche that I am so interested in. So valuable. It's been a good time. This has been one of the most fun experiences of things that I've done here because I get to learn so much about everything that's happening. And today I get to teach.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Today you get to teach. So I'm gonna let Erin kind of run with this episode and just kind of interject in between. I didn't ask Instagram questions. Shoot. We have no Instagram. No Instagram questions. So I will I will play the role as Instagram today, which is what I typically do. Cool. Well, I'm so excited to get into this project and to hear more about it. Um, I guess I'm just gonna pretend like I know nothing, which is pretty close to the truth.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Most of the frogs specifically.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Only about this specific Mountain Yellow Legacy Frog project.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I know about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

We're friends. You're admitting that?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Scratch that.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Scratch that from the record. Um, cool. Well, let's get into the episode. Boom. Hi, Erin. Thank you so much for being our guest on Aquarium of the Podcific today.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Hi, Erin. It's so nice to be me on the Aquarium of the Podcast. It's very jarring because I'm so used to interviewing someone. And having someone to like to pester. Yeah, exactly. And now I can't I'm being pestered in a good way. Um, I guess I'd have just gotten used to learning and not telling. Not telling anyone. But I want to talk to you guys a little bit about a project that has really been sort of the defining project of my career. Um, I, for a little background on me, started here at the aquarium uh five and a half years ago. Wow. Five and a half years ago. And I was hired on because of my experience with marine mammals and penguins. And obviously, frogs are neither of those things.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Interesting journey from marine mammals and penguins to frogs. Very um not necessarily polar opposites, but pretty close. I just like things that sometimes are in water and they're sometimes on land. That's true. Penguins can be very amphibian-like in that way.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

So it works out. They just can't breathe down there. Maybe they could try harder because frogs can. And honestly, that's really what's solving them is their ability to absorb oxygen through their skin. Um, but yeah, I got hired on to take care of totally different species. And similar, I think it was Brooke that was saying that no one really has a linear career path when it comes to working with animals. And I think that five years ago, if you told me that I would be heavily involved with frogs, I would be very confused as to how I got there. But I started helping to cover some of our amphibian gallery and helping to just like provide coverage on the weekends. And as I kind of grew more and more in that role, and we also kind of concurrently were developing a partnership with USGS and some other institutions that were what's USGS? US Geological Survey. So that is a federal agency, and they are actually who holds the permit for our mountain yellow-legged frog project. Thank you. Um so as we sort of developed these relationships and started to think about our prospective involvement in this project, um, I sort of became one of the people who had the relevant experience. And it was actually me and one of my coworkers who no longer works here, unfortunately, but it now works for the World Wildlife Care Network, which is really cool. And so she gets pictures of the frogs almost daily. Sorry, Frankie. Shout out to Frankie. Shout out to Frankie, who was um sort of my partner in the project's inception. But she and I worked really hard to make that project what it is, and now I'm hopeful that we can teach more people what a mountain yellow-legged frog is and why they should care about them, and also actually help to save a species, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Did you have any background with frogs at all or even an interest in frogs before this? Don't tell the frogs.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Don't tell the frogs. I'm gonna tell all of them. I had no experience with amphibians, like professionally or personally. I guess like I grew up in Hawaii, and there's not any native, it depends who you ask, considered not to be any native species of amphibians in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

I mean, it's an island, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

And so there are invasives, there's like cane toads, there's kokie frogs, and um, there are some poison dart frogs that were introduced that some people consider endemic, but that's its own thing. But I didn't grow up around a lot of amphibians, like they just didn't really exist. And I certainly liked the idea of them, but didn't know anything about them. And so starting here was sort of the first introduction I had to them, and I was so nervous starting to work with them because like a sea lion, if like, I don't know, something happens, like its water gets a little colder, it's fine. It's a mammal, it's creating its own heat, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

We kind of talked about that in our last episode with Reed. You know, there's you know, our marine mammals can withstand a two-degree, um, depending on the weather outside, versus, you know, an endangered species like a mountain yellow frog, who we have a permit to care for here. You know, that really can't fluctuate.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, and it was the most nerve-wracking transition to take care of these like big things that are fine to little things that maybe aren't fine if you do something slightly wrong. And so there was a big learning curve for me because taking care of amphibians is so significantly different than marine mammals or seabirds or really anything that kind of regulates itself. And something I've come to learn to love about the amphibians is that they exist so in harmony with their environment that it's not really about caring for the individual animal, but ensuring that their habitat is clean and appropriate and that they have everything that they need. And if their environment is generally healthy, the animals are generally healthy. And I think that's a really that was the biggest thing I had to like learn for myself is like, hey, you can kind of fix almost anything for a frog if you keep everything clean and nice and healthy. And I don't know, I just that's not the case for seals and seal lions, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

So that's been really fun. Well, it's not the case in the wild right now, unfortunately, and that's kind of we'll get into why we are caring for these animals. So sad. I know, it's such a bummer.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

But yeah, they um they really live in harmony with their environment, and there is disharmony. What's that word? There isn't harmony right now because of some anthropogenic causes. But what's anthropogenic? What's that? Human-caused. Anthropogenic means human-caused. And so a lot of people think that we live in the Anthropocene, which is just essentially we've done so much to alter the way that the world works that we are in a new era that is purely based off of all of the things that humans have done. And that's sort of disheartening to think about that we have done so much that it's sort of overcome the natural processes of the world. But at the same time, I think it's also goes to show that humans have so much ability to change that there is hope, you know. Like we did a lot of stuff, but we didn't know better at the time. And so now working to kind of rectify all those things and fix it, it's cool to see that we can have such a significant impact when we are trying.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Can you name another example of something that we have done that with where there has been, you know, human-caused issues and we've been able to reverse it? I'm not the expert on this at all, but I can think about the ozone and how Yeah, that's actually a huge one. Yeah, the the ozone is huge. Turns out you are an expert on this. But um, I know that you know, holes in the ozone were a huge issue, or the breakdown of our ozone was a huge issue. And they were will we're able to ban um the substances or the chemicals that cause gas. CFCs, chlorofluorocarbons. Period. Period. And the ozone has been repairing itself. And I'm not the expert on this, so don't sound like you're kind of the expert on this. That's my job here is to be the audience there again to ask you questions.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Like I think it's a super pertinent example of like how we can work to fix things that we've done. And to be honest, like we've done a lot of damage that we've already reversed. It's just that it's not recent, and so we are not thinking about it. But like I'm in my master's program right now. One of the things that I'm so shocked routinely to learn about is how bad air quality was in, especially California in like the 50s, where you literally there was like no days per year that it was healthy to go outside. And that's partially because of the geography of Southern California and like there's this air basin that traps all the pollutants, but we also weren't regulating pollutants in any significant way. That I think it was like last year's data or two years ago's data that there was only like one day where it was very unhealthy to go outside versus like every other day.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

That's why all those old 1950s movie have that like yellow tint on it. It's the small. That's the air, it's not the film, it's the air. It's just how bad it's.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

That's how everything looks then. Yeah. And so, I mean, there's things like that, right, where we didn't even think about the effects that that was having on us. But like if you talk to someone from who grew up in, you know, that time, they'd be like, Yeah, the air was so bad I could not go outside some days, and I would like cough all the time. And I was like, that sounds terrible. Like I never worried about that. And so lucky, we are working to fix things, and I think that now that we have more information, we're sort of obligated to undo a lot of the things that we've definitely done. And we are doing it, and so that makes me feel hopeful, especially when you think about the fact that over 40% of amphibian species are either considered endangered or threatened, which means that their habitat and their populations are declining in some significant way. I am really sad for all the frogs, I'll never know. How many frogs are there? There's a lot of frogs, there's a lot of frogs to get it out. Yeah, we get it out. Oh, there it is. I had a frog in my throat. Had to say it and do it to him. Had to do it to him. Um, but yeah. And so there's a lot of different species of frogs. And I I learn about frogs that existed that I won't ever meet because they're gone now. And one that's really cool, I know it is a real bummer. I mean, like any species that's totally extinct now, you're like, I wish I knew what that was. But there was a gastric brooding frog. There was actually several gastric brooding frogs, but one very recently went extinct, like within the last 20 years, that would just raise his baby in its tummy and it would just have a bunch of babies that would just crawl out of its mouth when they are ready. And that's cool. Scott's face. It's horrifying. Scott, you don't have to worry about it because it'll never happen again. I know. Sad. The gastric brooding frogs are gone. Terrifying. And so to prevent me from having that experience over and over again, we should really be working to preserve these species. But yeah, I mean, sometimes I think about all the amphibians that I will never get to meet, and that sounds really dorky, but that there's so many amphibians that have cool adaptations and can produce these like substances that might have antibacterial properties. And there's, you know, these animals that play this huge role in their ecosystem because most amphibians exist as like a larval stage in the water where they're eating detritus and like stuff off the bottom. Just detritus. Just like gunk. Okay, scientific word for gunk. And they'll eat algae, and so they become these like primary consumers of like whatever's growing. And then they go through metamorphosis where their whole body changes and they become these like terrestrial animals that mostly eat insects or sometimes lizards. And so they connect the food web in such a different way than most animals do because they totally transform what they're eating and what they're doing over the course of their lifetime, that when you lose amphibians from those environments, you lose a lot of that interconnectivity, and it's just kind of weakens the strength of you know that ecosystem. So I'll just never know some of these frogs. But mountain yellow-legged frogs are the ones that we are specifically working to save here at the aquarium, and that's a project that started um before we got involved with it. We are now a partner in that project, but they have taken over my life, as Madeline knows. And they are one of the coolest frogs I've ever met. But there's nothing that special about before anyone asks, nothing specifically that special about it. Because I get that question all the time. They have yellow legs. They do. Um, but there's also a foothill yellow-legged frog and a Sierra yellow-legged frog. And so there's a line of yellow-legged frogs. But um, and they're all pretty close related. But um when people ask me why we're saving this specific species, you know, with sea otters and with sunflower stars, it's really easy. Like, that's a keystone species that is protecting the entire environment. And sometimes you look at one frog and you're like, if they were gone, like how would the ecosystem be impacted? And part of the reason, and the major reason, is like we did this, so we should be fixing it. And the other part is that like redundancy in any sort of ecological system is important for the health of that system. And so you want there to be multiple species of frogs, you want there to be like adaptability to climate change and loss in different ways so that ecosystems can evolve as the world changes. And so if we lose a lot of those like variables and we lose a lot of those species, we're not going to see ecosystems bounce back the way that they should when there are climate-related impacts or other things that happen to those habitats.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Well, let's talk about, you know, so we know that this species isn't isn't necessarily integral to its ecosystem, but what role do amphibians play in their ecosystems?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, so they, like I said earlier, are usually just kind of a part of this trophic web that connects a lot of different animals together. And so they're part of the food chain is not really a good analogy. A food web is a better analogy, and they allow there to be food and prey, but also predators for a lot of different species because of how diverse their diet is over the course of their life. And also, amphibians, some people say they can be sort of ecological indicators of the health of an ecosystem. I don't always agree with that because it turns out frogs are much hardier than you think they are. I should have known that five years ago when I started working with them and I panicked every time I had to do anything. But if you think about how they've evolved over millions of years, they live now in desert ecosystems, they live now in like totally aquatic ecosystems. There's totally aquatic frogs, there's amphibians everywhere. And I think that's really cool that they are hardy enough and they can evolve so rapidly to adapt to change that's happening around them. But in the same vein, if you have a lot of chemicals in the water, you're gonna kill all the frogs. So in that way, it can be a really good indicator of the health of their overall environment.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Very cool. Um, what's the difference between an amphibian and a reptile?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

That's a good question. So they are both considered herptiles or herps. Um, but amphibians are they have permeable skin. They don't typically have scales, although there's a couple exceptions to that. I think a couple of species of sicilians have scales. Oh really? Yeah, and they are mostly fossorial and terrifying. Don't look them up.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Um we have some sicilians here.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

We do. We have aquatic sicilians which have no scales. Oh, they look like sock puppets. They're really cute. They're really cute. Do not Google what the inside of their mouth looks like. And if you need to, you can, but it's really scary.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

So if you're driving, listening to this, or you're if you're if you're stationary somewhere. Not driving. Why would you say that? I don't want someone who's driving to look it up, but you're put a note in your brain to look that up later because I guess it's terrifying. I can't wait to see. Specifically, do not look it up if you're driving.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Put a note in your brain. Pause this episode now. I think it's Typhlonectes Natans, but look up aquatic Sicilian mouth.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Ooh, do I get to quiz you on species names?

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Since you quiz her, what's what's Mountain Yellow Legged Frog's species name? Rana Muscosa. If I didn't know that, it would all be over for me though. Cut the mic. Cut the mic. She's cancelled.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Scott, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Oh, the the mouth. Let's see it. Is that this?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah. Ah, that's what it looks like in there. Is a little spooky in here. That's that's more than a little spooky. Um, aquatic sicilians are really cool. Nature is so beautiful. Nature is wonderful. Um, apparently the fossorial sicilians that have scales are even scarier, and I am scared to even Google them. So I wouldn't even do it. But they I mean they look like a big worm.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

But um, yeah, what other what other quizzes you I don't know. I don't know. I mean frogs. Magnificent tree frog? I know that one. Yeah, those are Latoria splendida. Is it Latori? What about Sonora and Desert Toad? I'm thinking of the animals we have here.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Cilius Alvarius. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

That is exactly what I was gonna say. Um, what about the He used to be Buffo, but they've changed how they classify toads. Oh, or Buffo. He's not a Buffalo. Alfred's not a Buffo anymore. Alfred's no buffo.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Alfred's no bufo. Hmm. What other frogs do I know? Scott, what frogs do you know?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Oh, spring peepers. We get a lot of those in Pennsylvania. I don't know what they're doing. I mean, I've seen them. I don't think I know what they're of course frogs. Oh, they're Sudacris. Yeah, yeah, chorus frogs is it. But we have Pseudacris. Which one do we have? We have Pacific Tree Frogs, which are Sudacris. Uh um, anyway, that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Do all frogs metamorphize?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Uh no, some are direct developers, which is sort of interesting in and of itself. So the Kihansi spray toad, which I recognize as is it a frog? They the common names always mess everything up. But they are direct developers, and so when they give birth, they just give birth to a tiny little version of themselves, and it is very cute. Um, if you ever want to see the cutest little thing in the entire world, look up Kehansi spray toads, which are native to Tanzania, but and then also look up how small their babies are, 'cause you'll get a better baby. Um, but those guys actually have I think the smallest geographic footprint of any animal on the entire planet because they only live in the spray of the Kihansi waterfall in Tanzania, and then they dammed the waterfall. And turns out all that spray was super important for them to live. And so this population of amphibians went extinct in the wild, but thankfully they had been some of them had been collected for a captive assurance colony, which essentially means that there are going to be some genetics that they retain, so they can breed them and hopefully reintroduce them. And they've been successfully reintroducing reintroducing these animals for a while. So that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

That is so wild to think that something that can be something so important to them, like the spray of this waterfall. And we don't know until we remove it, and then unfortunately it goes extinct in the wild. That's yep, that's so impactful. Well, I think about an animal like the axolotl that from my understanding is only found in one kind of water. One lake in Mexico. One lake, yeah, exactly. And so here's something even more specific to this one waterfall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

They're just a little less cute than axolotls. I just likely care a little less. But when they are, I mean, the direct developers, they I mean, just them popping out as a tiny toad from the mom is very cute. And I was lucky enough to see a couple of them in person at the Detroit Zoo where they are part of the conservation work for the Kehonzi spray toad. And I was just so enamored by how tiny the little baby toads were and how many of them, because under the right conditions, they're actually great breeders and they do really well. It's just that they had damned the waterfall and they didn't realize the impact that that was going to have on these animals. So I think it's small changes that we don't necessarily think are going to cause problems. And I wonder how long it took them to adapt to that waterfall in order to probably so long.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, exactly. Like we lived here forever. Yeah, guess we gotta be a part of this thing and then it's removed.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It's like, guess we gotta go. Guess it's all over for us. So it is interesting. I think they've part of what they were doing conservation-wise to help preserve the spray toads was they installed mister systems along the waterfall because I think the dam is a hydroelectric dam. Like, I do think there was a purpose for it. But I know that they're trying to do things to help rectify, like, and fix what they had removed. And I think that the spray helps. So those are interesting animals in and of themselves. But speaking of small things that we don't realize are gonna damage an entire population. We can talk about men yell like a frogs now. I have one question for you before we get into that. What's the difference between a toad and a frog? It's complicated. It usually toads have thicker skin and are a little bit bumpier and wordier, and usually frogs have more smooth skin. Usually toads sort of walk. They can walk a little bit more than frogs typically do, and frogs will mo mostly hop. And there's a couple of different things like toads tend to inhabit slightly drier habitats, and frogs tend to be more aquatic. But I'm using these words because they diverged a while ago, and there's frogs and there's toads, but they can adapt to live in a bunch of different environments. And so Panamanian golden frogs are a perfect example. They look like a frog, they were called a frog, but then they realize that they're toads. And so, although they're called frogs, they're actually toads. And so it's sort of confusing.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

There's so much of that in every single family of animal that we've talked about.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

And I think it's sort of like becomes one of those things that there's not a great one way to tell versus the other. Um, but usually if you see something sort of like wide and bumpy, is a toad. Is is it like all frogs are toads, all toads are frogs? No, they're just they're separate things. Um, which is interesting. I think they all fall under aneurins. Um, and so the order annual is frogs and toads, and those are two separate things.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Understand. Cool. All right, let's talk about each other.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

My my favorite frogs. Um, so mountain yellow-legged frogs are one of those perfect examples of humans changing something in their habitat that we didn't realize was going to cause a huge issue for them. So at one point, and these frogs live in like pristine alpine environments, they live in fishless waterways, they live in areas where the water is coming from snow melt. So fish never made it all the way up there. And they can live at altitudes of like a thousand to twelve thousand feet, super high up. And so they're also cold weather frogs, which is weird to think about. But regardless, and so there's these mountain frogs, and then people in the 1800s started settling around California, and they were like, hey, you know it'd be really cool as if we could do some fishing. And they started introducing trout, specifically, I think rainbow trout, to the waterways where the mountain yellow-legged frogs lived. And it turns out trout eat everything. And so between the 1800s and about the 1960s or 70s, when they were still doing these trout introductions, they didn't realize that all of the tadpoles of the mountain yellow-legged frogs were just being sucked up by all these trout that were up there. And fun fact about mountain yellow-legged frogs is they can take up to four years to get out of the water and metamorphose. And they spend a really long time as a tadpole. Especially if it's a little bit colder that year and they're not getting the nutrients that they need. And so there would be these like super plump four-year-old tadpoles just chilling in the water, and then these trout would come around and just eat all of them. So it was a bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

That's devastating to their population. It takes so long for them to even get to a point that they're coming out of the water and then they're just being yeah, slurped up before they even get there. So I'm assuming that really led to their extinction pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Um, it was a major cause of decline. And, you know, at one point, everything I've read says that they used to be the most populous vertebrate in their entire range at the time that they weren't being all eaten by a drought. And, you know, if you read like old school textbooks, a lot of them were like, you couldn't go five feet without seeing a mountain yellow-legged frog. And I was like, that's cool. And to think now, like, that's not the case. There are estimated to be less than 200 reading age adults in the wild. And I went on a field trip specifically to see them at a site where we knew that they existed, and we still only saw like five. And they were all juveniles, and none of them were adults. I've never seen an adult of this species that I work so closely with, which is crazy to think about. But yeah, so trout was a major cause of decline. And you know, any sort of introduced predator or introduced species is going to have impacts that we don't necessarily think about. Like we're just like, we want to go fishing. Here's some trout. And these animals evolved. They've never had predators in their waterway because they evolved in a fishless system that all of a sudden there's this trout that are just coming and eating all the little tadpoles. So that was a major cause of decline. And when they realized that, they were like, we should probably do something about this. So they started working to reverse that, and they started doing trout removal in specific sites, and they actually saw the population bounce back. And it was really exciting because they're like, Oh, okay, it's the trout, that's the problem. When would you say this was about? I think they started doing that in the late 70s or 80s, but don't quote me on that. Um, and they are still doing trout removal to this day for some of these habitats. Like, there are still like invasive trout species that are in waterways where they shouldn't be. And so part of making the habitat suitable for mountain yellow legged frogs again is taking the trout out of the water. And unfortunately, it's never good news for the trout, but um trout doing okay? The trout are fine. I mean, like as a species, but um, they weren't supposed to be in those places. And so I think that you know, that was something that really was one of the first things that we did to help the species.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

They started coming back a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

They did, and they were they were doing okay. They were like, okay, cool. Like a few years later, once all the stupid tadpoles got out of the water, Ad really took their sweet time, then they started seeing mountain frogs again, and then it wasn't until the 90s that they started describing this massive loss of amphibians worldwide. And everyone was like, What's going on? And apparently it was at some conference that scientists came together and they're like, This is the species that I primarily study, and I can't find it anywhere. And other people were having the same experience where they'd come up to each other and they'd be like, I also can't find my species anywhere, or there's like only two individuals where previously there were thousands. There's abundance, yeah. And it turns out that there has been a disease process that has been attacking amphibians worldwide, and it is a fungal disease called Kytridiomycosis caused by Batracochitrium dendrobatidis, which is also known as BD. Yeah, BD or chytrid fungus. And we didn't really know a lot about it until the late 90s, and like the early 2000s, we were studying it much more closely, and it turns out that these massive amphibian di-offs around the world were all tied to the same fungus, which is weird. Yeah. And so they've done some research to figure out what happened and why. And Kitrid is basically implicated in the decline of most amphibian species. Um, I think there are very few that show any sort of like resistance to it. And it's sort of a bummer. I mean, like, it's not something we talk about, but it is a huge disease process that is wiping out this incredibly diverse range of animals.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Two questions. Is it affecting any other species besides amphibians that you know of?

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Um, as far as I know, it's not anything besides amphibians, but it is frogs, toads, salamanders, newts, like it's all amphibians. There's also um B sal, which is Batrich Ochytrium salamandravorans, which is a very sounds like a spell. Salamandravorans. Um, but that one is a slightly different, similar fungus, like same um genus, but causes slightly different issues. But both funguses attack the skin of the amphibians. And so the reason I'm not quite sure if it affects anyone else is because what it does is it attacks the keratinized yeah. It attacks the keratinized portion of the skin. And so this little fungus will settle into their little skin and then it'll start kind of like eating at the keratin essentially of their skin, and their body's immune reaction is to just thicken up their skin. And so you get these animals where if you take like a microscope slide of what's happened, you just see these areas of like extremely abnormal thickening of the epidermis, and it doesn't sound that crazy, except that when you think about how frogs and toads regulate their like electrolyte balance and like hydration, right? It's through their skin. And so it can impact their respiration, it can impact their ability to take in water when they need to, it impacts their ability to sort of be in balance with their environment. If there's probably uncomfortable areas of thick skin, yeah. I never had an uncomfortable area of thick skin. I don't actually know what that's like. I don't know what that's like. But I mean, I'm making light of a very sad situation because I have to. But um, yeah, it causes all of these problems, and like their electrolyte imbalance then makes their organs fail and also makes their muscles not work. And so very characteristic signs of ketrid fungus in frogs would be you know, frogs always sit like all kind of like scooched up with their legs poised, ready to bounce at any moment. They'll sit with their legs all the way kind of relaxed back, and it looks weird. And so if you see frogs doing that, it's unfortunately probably not a good sign. But it also causes mortality pretty rapidly in populations, and so they had seen this bounce back of mountain frogs after they started removing trout, and they're like, We did it. And then I think it was in the 90s and early 2000s, they started going to these historic mountain yellow-legged frog sites, and they would just find waterways full of dead frogs. And I mean, frogs decay pretty fast, which means that those had just died, also. And yeah, I can't even imagine being someone who's like, I'm going out to study my species of interest, and they're all dead. And walking up there and knowing how much work you did to restore a species and then seeing that must be so devastating. So, not to be too much of a bummer. It's it's still out there and it's still pretty bad. And do we know what causes ketchup fungus? Is that um it's caused by the fungus, but we think that it was spread worldwide. It's complicated and there's a lot of different theories. Um, some genetic tests think that it maybe originated in Asia, but there is you can like trace it back to Europe and Africa also. So there's a lot of different places around the world. One of my favorite stories, it's a little bit of a messed-up story, about one of the probable causes of chytrid spread. One, it was bullfrogs because people like eating frog legs, and they started shipping bullfrogs around the world to eat them. And it turns out worldwide trade of amphibians will cause disease spread like no one's business. And bullfrogs are slightly resistant to it. And so they could be carriers, be shipped to a different country. All around the world. Yeah, and then if they escape or are let out or interact with native populations in any way, or just get into a waterway, that fungus can cause spores that end up in the water. The spores are modal and will go towards the chemicals that come off of a frog, and then they'll settle in that frog and spread and spread and spread. And so as soon as they spread like settle, they create more spores that then go back out in the water. And so it's extremely contagious. And so it's not just like frog-to-frog contact that will cause it, it's just being in the same water way, which is terrifying. But the funny story, if we have time for it, and it's only funny because it's so weird, is in the 19, I think it's 40s, there was something called the Hogbins Test that was a type of pregnancy test. And it was Xenopus lavis, which I think is the African clawed frog, um, was used as a pregnancy test by injecting the urine of a pregnant woman into the frog's back. And the presence of whatever hormone indicated pregnancy would cause this frog to express all of these eggs and like spheres. And it was a surprisingly accurate pregnancy test. Despite being horrible and like not great for the frog. I think they were probably one-time use, if I had to guess. Like, I don't really know how it impacted. There's not a lot of data on how it impacted the frogs. I don't think it's great. You can't usually inject pea into something and have it be fine. But because it was so effective as a pregnancy test, these African clodfrogs started being shipped worldwide because this is the most accurate pregnancy test, like 98% effective. And so they started shipping these animals all around the world, and those animals also are carriers of kitred fungus. And so between the two things, and between, you know, us moving and being a little bit more international and sort of international trade developing over the last century or so, it was bound to happen, but man, it is devastating.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Okay, so where are we at today with this with the species and its population in the wild?

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Mountain yellow legged frogs? So many frogs in my life. So many frogs. Um, so yeah, we think that there are less than 200 breeding age adults in the wild. And I think that's sort of the best way to measure population status because you can measure juveniles, but they take a few years to reach maturity too. And so there's almost no point in knowing how many individuals there are total unless they're also contributing to creating more individuals. It's not too many. Um, they've had Kitrid, they've had the trout, and then most recently, and sort of unfortunately just the cherry on top, is all of the things that have come along with climate change in California. And so we had a pretty bad fire that happened in 2020, that essentially 90 to 95% of the remaining usable habitat for the mountain yellow-legged frogs got all burned up. Raw. Raw. And it's only funny to me because I'm so familiar with it that I'm like, man, they are taking a little licks, yeah. You have to laugh, otherwise they'll cry. But after that fire, I guess if you could say the silver lining is that that sort of really um catalyzed our involvement with the Mountain Yola Get Frog project because there were these tadpoles that they rescued from the fire that they were like, these guys need a home. And so we accelerated our timeline for being part of the project to accommodate these. So this project had already existed before this fire with other institutions, yes. And it was in our, I think, vague plan of the future to be involved with. And you know, obviously COVID happened, and that was not ideal for any institution and sort of halted some of our development in this program. But um when this fire happened, it really did sort of catapult us into we should really be involved sooner. And so we received the first year that we were involved with mountain yellow-legged frogs, we got 150 captive-bred tadpoles from LA Zoo, who's an amazing partner in this project, and they have adult mountain yellow-legged frogs that they will go through the process of breeding, and then they would have tadpoles, and to head start the tadpoles, like I said, could take up to four years, and so they have other institutions that are partners that receive the tadpoles and grow them up. Under the right conditions, they can metamorphose in about a year, so it's not that crazy of a commitment when you're providing them all the things that they need. But um, they gave us 150 of those, and then they gave us 125 fire tadpoles that they're like, these guys almost died in a wildfire. You guys are gonna take care of them now. And we're like, this is our first time ever doing this. And they're like, these are wild collected and extremely genetically valuable. But um the challenge was accepted on our behalf, and we successfully raised so many of those animals, so we released 188 frogs last year. And to me, that is significant when you think about the 200 breeding age adults that are remaining in the wild. Um 188 is a huge impact. Substantially doubled their population for like a day, probably. I'm hopeful that the recruitment rate is pretty good, but we don't know, you know, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Like you have to be realistic about it, right? Yeah. So are they do they currently have predators? I mean, yeah, they've got predators.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

I mean, there's trout in some of the waterways, although I'm pretty sure where they're releasing them doesn't. I'm actually not even allowed to know where which is kind of cool and of itself. But it is in Southern California. Are you allowed to say that? Yeah, these guys are native to the population that we have are from the San Gabriel Mountain Range, and so I mean, good luck finding them there. There's so few of them. So but they are in the San Gabriels, and um this population is at least, and so we have um some more tadpoles that we're raising up and hopefully releasing pretty soon, maybe by the time this podcast episode is even out this week.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Maybe um what should you do if you see a mountain yell like a few. Do not catch it, and please don't leave it alone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Do not set fire to its habitat, do not pass code, do not collect$200. Um, no, I mean genuinely Do not let the frogs give you$200. Well that is their money. If they can, they could afford it. They need it. They are they they live in large here at the aquarium at least. Um, but I think if you see those animals, and I think something to be, I don't know, a good steward of any amphibian environment is to be extremely cognizant that Kitrid is a super contagious disease and it's caused by fungus spores. And so if you are hiking through habitat of different amphibians and you regularly do that, maybe just disinfect your shoes when you get home and like be more mindful of how you might actually be spreading disease processes when you walk through these places. Because you could ask anyone I know. I will go out herping all the time. I love finding frogs. I love herping is herping is going to find herptiles, which are reptiles and amphibians. I'm sorry about that. Um, it's a very weird term if you don't explain it. But you know, I specifically will go to try to find them in their natural habitat. One, because I think they're cool, but two, it gives me such a better understanding of what I'm trying to replicate if we have them here and like how to meet their needs. And what I think they're just really cute to find. So and so seeing what natural behaviors they might be displaying that I want to give them the opportunity to display and seeing where they live. And so seeing mountain yellow-legged frogs in their habitat gave me so much context to what I'm doing and where they live. And like they live in a super high flow, super cold water environment. And so we have spray bars that really increase the flow of our tanks so that they practice swimming better and grow stronger legs that might prepare them for release. Yeah, we're we just put little leg sweatbands on all of them. The cutest thing ever. Um, so they are hopefully in recovery, but it's been a tough couple of years. Um if you guys, if you live in California, you might know we've had some really bad summers, we've had wildfires, we've had droughts, and all of those things impact the ability of these animals to survive. I mean, a tadpole in a little pond that dries up and won't make it end, especially if they're gonna take four years to sit up in the ground. So um, there's that, and there's also habitat fragmentation. So if you know waterways dry up and there's only isolated little ponds, then that can actually create distinctly isolated populations of these animals. And so they're not they're not having the best time out there. But we're hopeful that with all the work that we're doing, in addition to all the work that our partners are doing, and it's not just you know us through US Geological Survey, yeah, who else is involved? San Diego Zoo's involved. Um, they are doing a lot actually, and they actually do some research as well to understand better about what's going on with the animals and understand their anatomy and sort of what a mountain yellow-legged frog is. We're not doing any research here at the aquarium, but we are doing quite a bit of head starting. We have a pretty big capacity to receive animals and raise them. And we're really hopeful that this year we might get to release about 90 to 100 more frogs, which is super cool. And we have three systems here. One has big frogs in it. They are big. My favorite one, and he will be memorialized in this podcast, is named Big Chicken, because he looks like a chicken sitting on eggs. And he is like twice the size of the next biggest frog. Big chicken. We love big chicken. So he's the cover photo for the podcast. Yelling into microphones. I need to get a picture of him with his mouth open. Um, but yeah, he's cool. And we have just a bunch of animals that are waiting to have a nice home to be released, and then USGS will let us know when it's time, and then they take our frogs and they put them out there.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

So that room or that space is technically behind the scenes, and we kind of chatted about that last. Week with Reed, who built the room and plumbed it alongside you and no, he really did it. Him and the life support team really did that. Um, but will our guests on site ever be able to see a Mount Yellow Legacy displayed? Is that ever is that planned?

SPEAKER_01 44:15

It's a good question. I think that it's something that we would love to incorporate. Stay tuned, maybe. I hope. Um, because I don't know. They're cool. I probably I don't think that most people would look at them and be like, whoa. But it's the story, right? Like it's and that's the same with most species, is like it's all about what happened to them and sort of like learning more about them as individuals. Something that is really cool that I've never smelled, that sounded weird, is apparently when they're threatened, they release a garlic smell. Uh-huh. Um, I haven't threatened them enough, I guess, because they've never done it to me. Um, but that's cool. You know, like what is that? Why are you making a weird garlic smell? This probably smells good.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

So if you're walking in the San Gabriel Mountains and you smell garlic, maybe it's probably garlic because there's so few frogs out there.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

It's probably actually just someone camping in the street. Probably some garlic. Um, no, but they're, I mean, there are species that we should save because we did it to them, you know? Everything that's happening to them is human-caused. And they're animals that evolved to live in this like predatorless, cold waterway. And so they're okay living at 12,000 feet in the air. And so when you think about these creatures that have evolved over so many years to inhabit these extremely niche ecosystems, and then you think about us as well, here's some fish, here's some disease. And we've just kind of really messed with that cycle. I think that that's a little bit disheartening. So it's been sort of the most inspiring thing to be a part of. And I didn't get to attend the release last year. Apparently, it was quite the trek into the mountains, and they knew I would slow them down. And let's be honest, I would uh because you have to carry a cooler full of frogs up a mountain. Like, I can't do that. I could barely walk up a mountain myself, not let alone like 200 frogs on my back, 200 endangered frogs on my back. Yeah, I would I would tumble down the mountain. Then I'd be like, just go. They deserve to go. So, but they did send this picture that it was like my phone background for months because it was just one of our frogs on a rock in the wild. And I was like, that's the coolest thing I've maybe ever seen. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Because that's so much work that went into just that one frog in order to be reintroduced. Later make it. What's what's his name?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I didn't name him. You should name him. Gabriel. Sandy Gabriel. His name is Gabriel. I hope you're out there, Gabriel.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Hope you're out there.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

It was funny for the couple weeks after we released them. I would think about them and be like, wonder what they're up to. You know, like I got to know you guys over the last year. I mean, there was so many of them that it was hard to know them each other. You walk into the mountains, they all jump on you. They're like, Mama. Um but at the same time, I would just think about them and be like, I wonder who's out there, like who's making it? What bugs are you eating? Yeah. And we're constantly looking for ways to improve our project too and set them up for better success. So this year we held on to a couple more of them until they were a little bigger. Maybe they do better when they're released bigger, which would make sense to me, because then they're not three grams going out into like a river. But they do okay. I mean chicken sized big yeah, we need bid chitons. I call him bid chitten. Like he is some monster size. And when they are first metamorphosed, they're three grams. He's gonna make it. I hope so. And he's kind of funny because he'll I call him a den monster. I have a lot of names for him. But he likes to sit under this rock, and then if a cricket like crawls by, he'll like launch out and eat it and then go back into his little den. And I was like, if anyone's not gonna get eaten by a bird, it's a big chicken.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

He knows what's up. Get back in there. What are they eating here at the aquarium and what do they typically eat in the wild?

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Yeah, it's so I've done a little bit of research on what their natural diet is. And back in the 70s, when there was like a million of them, they used to catch them and they would open up their stomachs to see what the contents were. And there were beetles and there were like pond skaters and some like flies. Those things are not easy for us to source as like a live food option. And so I've been doing my darndest to try to get them food that is close. And so they do eat crickets. That is a larger part of their diet because that is easy to source. The crickets are gut-loaded and also dusted with vitamins. Um, and for those of you who might own frogs, vitamins are important for frogs. Um, they get calcium from those vitamins, in addition to UV supplementation, it helps their bones grow. So supplementary frogs. Um, but they're also eating things like fruit flies. And I've recently introduced dubia roaches to some of our bigger frogs that can handle that sort of tough exoskeleton. Yeah, and I wanted it to mimic beetles, you know, like get used to eating stuff that you might see, something like it. And I've recently started seeing this really cool behavior from some of our biggest frogs where they sit at the water surface with just their eyes out, and your whole body's like poised to strike. And I'm like, there is nothing that I am feeding you that would like skate across the surface, but I could so see that being hunting behavior to catch like a spa a pond skater, you know, like there it is, there it is, and then just launch themselves at it. So instincts are there.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Yeah, the instincts are there, the food is not. So they're eating hopefully will be. Is there any threat to their food in the wild right now or is it pretty abundant? Not that I know of.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I certainly when I was hiking, bugs beat up beer. I guess I don't know if it's their favorite bugs, but bugs be out there. So I definitely got a lot of mosquito bites when I was out there. That's something that I didn't talk about. Is we there was recently a study that showed amphibians are important because they control mosquito populations. So if you care about amphibians, if you care about getting bit with care about amphibians.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

If you hate mosquitoes, love amphibians. That's well, everything has a role in the ecosystem, right? Except mosquitoes go away. Do they really not have any purpose? Um, it just annoys.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

I'm sure they do, but I don't I am very susceptible.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Or anti. This is an anti-mosquito podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

We're gonna have on like a mosquito expert next season and be like, what do we anyways? So, yeah, that's kind of what we're doing here at the aquarium. The care is pretty intensive. I wish that it was a little bit easier to display, and I hope that someday it is.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Um it's so much work that you're doing just behind the scenes. But yeah, it's been a really fun story to to hear about and seeing and you know, getting the access to the room and and seeing you know what you're doing back there has been really awesome too.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

And seeing Big Chitten. He's so cute. He's so cute. Everyone who has come into that room like to do maintenance, or like a couple of people have come in there. I've specifically shown them big chicken. I was like, this is the biggest mountain yellow legal I have ever seen as someone who has seen way more than most people.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

What will be the next name? Bigger chicken?

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Goose, large goose, eagle, eagle, as they continue to grow, just continue. This is enormous ostrich. He's he's a 600-pound mountain yellow legged frog 300 or 30 feet long. That's my dream. Um, so he's the dream. No, I I really hope that their population start to recover, and we're hoping that sort of as animals adapt to Kitrid and that becomes more of a normal part of their life, that they also start to find ways to adapt and evolve alongside it. Um, there's some evidence to suggest that maybe frogs sun themselves so heavily because Kitrid doesn't do well with heat, and so they're actually just cooking the fungus off their back to like get it off me. Um and then interestingly, tadpoles are really not impacted by Kitrid as much because their skin isn't keratinized. There's no keratin in their epidermis. There is keratin in their little raspy mouthparts, though. And so sometimes if a tadpole has Kitrid, you could tell by abnormalities of the oral disc, so their little mouthparts won't be developed properly, or they'll be sort of eaten away by that. So kitrid is an ever-present risk, and so part of the reason why we have such strict biosecurity around our mountain yellow-legged frogs is to prevent introduction because we've tested them before we release them just to be, you know, doing our due diligence. Yeah, that would be so detrimental. So we have like a foot bath, a boot change that goes into it. We have very strict um cross-contamination protocols that you can't work with mountain frogs if you've worked with the amphibian gallery. And not to say that anyone in the gallery has Kitrid, like that's not the case, but you never know what diseases you might be introducing when you work with similar species in the same day. So we are pretty strict about our mountaineal-legged frogs. That's half the reason they're behind the scenes, too, is to create this little bubble. Also, I will be lying to you if I told you that that wasn't my favorite room because it's air conditioned. I know, it is really nice on the hot day. It's like 93 degrees today, and it is 64 degrees in there, and the water is 50. And so if I'm doing water changes, I'll come out shivering, and everyone's like, what is wrong with you? It is 90 degrees. You don't know what I'm just doing. You don't know what I've been through. I have been in the Alpine Mountain Lakes of the Mountain Frogs. So it's been really great. And that's awesome. Yeah, shout out to Frankie, wherever you are listening to this. Wherever you are. I know you're listening. Frankie and I both um had sort of the experience of like after that first round was released, it almost felt like our kids went to cool to college. Empty nets. There they go. They're doing so well. See that picture. Here's 150 more. Yeah. Here's all your babies got. So that was that. I mean, it's a really salient point, right? It's an ever going project because as soon as we release, we're trying to take on more and continue to grow up more. And we've expanded our capacity recently. We have a third system running, whereas we had two for the last couple of years. So we're pretty happy with it. And if you ever want to be air conditioned, too bad, because I'm the only one ever. You can't. No, it's it's really nice. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

I'm very lucky. Well, it's so great hearing you talk about it, and I know your dedication to it, and I'm lucky to see that up close.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

I actually don't see any frogs at all.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

No, it's been really cool. And I I learned so much through this episode, and you know, being close with you and hearing about them one-on-one has been awesome all the time. All the time, constantly at every point. Hey, can I tell you about these frogs?

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Can I tell you about what my frogs are doing today? They were being so cute today. So many pictures and videos.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Awesome. No, I'm proud of it. I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

You can roast the other ones, but big chicken is unroastable. He's our starboard. Roast another chicken.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Roast another chicken. That's awesome. Well, are there any conservation efforts that you hope to be a part of coming up in your career here at the Aquarium of the Pacific?

SPEAKER_01 54:34

I think we do a lot. And I think with Sea Otter Cergusy and Mountain Yellow Legged Frogs, I certainly get to be a part of a lot of our front-facing conservation work. Um, as I always introduce myself in the beginning of the episode, I am my position now as conservation coordinator for mammals and birds, and that's frogs and frogs. We just I think our department is called mammals and birds, but frogs fall under but with my new position, I get to help identify sort of what projects our aquarium can like work towards. And one of the things that I've been working on is having people volunteer for habitat restoration and other conservancies that are local and also get some hands-on experience doing other things. Um, I get to have help coordinate some of our training for the old wildlife care network. So some of our staff are actually trained to respond to an oil spill and save whatever wildlife might be impacted by that oil spill. And so I get to help coordinate some of those efforts now with Frankie, also, which is very fun. And so Frankie's our invisible guest. Yeah, Frankie's. We really need to have her on. We will. That would be awesome. Um, but I do think that it's been cool to see like these other people come through my life and grow up in their careers and move on to other things, but have them still be connections. Frankie is coordinating a lot of the volunteer response for the Oil Wildlife Care Network. And so I still get to talk to my friends. Yeah, and I'm like, oh, this is what networking means. This is being a professional and like knowing people, but also it's just so amazing to see people grow into these roles and become this like overarching network of like, we're gonna save the world.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

That is, yeah, that's amazing. I think it's great that the aquarium is getting involved into habitats before there's a huge problem. Maybe there's kind of symptoms of a problem starting, but you know, things aren't necessarily going extinct. But we're also hopping on to um traumatic, traumatic issues.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Yeah, we're traumatic's not the right word. We respond to a lot of different like a disaster spell. Yeah, disaster is the right word.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Traumatic disaster.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

And we had some staff respond to the Huntington Beach oil spill that happened in 2021. To have a network of responders that can respond to anything, you know, at a given moment is really cool. And it's not easy to respond to the wildlife portion of an oil spill because you are having to pick up an angry wild bird or you know, something like that. Never been handled before. Yeah. And so the Oiled Wildlife Care Network is this amazing organization that kind of links together different people at different institutions, then creates this network that, like, hey, there's an oil spill in San Diego. We have local San Diego responders who will then go out and do it. Or if there's one in Huntington Beach, we got mobilized for that. And so we really get to be a part of a lot of different things. And I like having people trained and at the ready to go rather than trying to retroactively train people when something happens. Exactly. We're ready.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

Because unfortunately, stuff happens, stuff happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

But we're here to st to fix it when it happens, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Yeah, and to maybe prevent it from happening in the first place. But that's gonna take a little extra work.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

For now, we will raise the frogs and release them. Well, thank you so much, Erin, for being my guest today on my podcast. Oh, okay. Our podcast Aquarium of the Podsip. It was really great to hear about your passion for these frogs. It's too much frogs and and one big frog.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Big chicken. I think that I should send you guys a picture of big chicken.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

I think you should. I think you should he should be the cover file.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

He looks like he's sitting on eggs like a chicken. He's cute. I hope we get to release them pretty soon. That would be awesome. And I do want to say thank you to all the partners in the Mountain Legit Frog program because it's it takes a village to raise a clutch of tactils. And I know that sounds really silly, but like, you know, even our life support department built that entire room. They were there today doing maintenance to make sure that the chillers keep the water cold enough. And we have facilities who helps maintain like the way the AC system works in there to keep it cool enough in there. And we have all the husbandry staff were involved with it, and then we have these partner organizations, and then we have this like overarching management system, and it's just so many people working together to save a species. It's really neat to see. It's awesome. Superheroes, superheroes, but frogs are frogs. But yeah, just picture little frogs with little capes, but super frog. Put a cape on big chicken. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

Super big chicken.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

That's just when he gets bigger. We're just gonna call him super big chicken.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

They'll get there. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Erin. That was awesome. And thank you so much to everybody who listened to our season. We're podcasters. Whoa. We made a whole season.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

And thank you to everyone who participated in this season too. I learned about turtles and sharks and jellies and sea stars and facilities and life support and basically everything that we do here. So I think we're done. The podcast is out.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

No, we won't be done. We will be we won't, we are not done. We'll be back in a couple months with season two. So let us know what you thought about this season. Let us know what you liked.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Um, I'm sensitive, so don't tell us anything you did.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Madeline is the one that receives the comments. She shows me sometimes one of them just said great information, which I really loved seeing that feedback. Um, but also thank you, Scott, who's been quietly sitting here all season.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

Just listening to us.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Our number one listener, Scott Shaw. He has listened to every episode. But yeah, it's been great. And thank you guys so much for listening. Please write in to any avenue that you can contact the aquarium. Madeline manages a lot of our social media.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

And so if you Instagram message or do anything on social media and you tag us at it, I'm gonna see it. So I'd love to hear your feedback. What you want to hear on next season? Let us know. Cool. Thanks, Aaron. Thank you, Madeline. Thank you, Podcific listeners. Thank you, Scott. We'll see you next season. Bye. Bye. Aquarium of the Podcific is brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, a 501 C3 nonprofit organization. In 2023, the Aquarium celebrates 25 years of connecting millions of people worldwide to the beauty and wonder of our ocean planet. Head to aquariumofpacific.org to learn more about our 25th anniversary celebration. Keep up with the Aquarium on social media at Aquarium Pacific on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

This podcast is produced by Aaron Lundy, Madeline Walden, and Scott Shaw. Our music is by Andrew Reitzma, and our podcast art is by Brandy Kenney. Special thanks to Cecile Fisher, Anita Viez, and our audiovisual and education departments. And to all of our amazing podcast guests for taking time out of their day to talk about the important work that they do. Podcific wouldn't be possible without the support of the Aquarium's donors, members, guests, and supporters. Thanks for listening.